Synod Stories

Brian (00:01)
Welcome to Synod Stories, a show about the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, its past, present, and future. Besides learning about the LCMS National Convention, I started this podcast to learn more about what is what life is like across the Synod. To that end, I have Pastor Ben Ball, who is the pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church and School in Hamill, Illinois, and second vice president of the LCMS. Pastor Ball, welcome and thank you for being here.

Ben (00:22)
Thanks for the opportunity, Brian. It's really good to be with you.

Brian (00:25)
All right. So this comes from an anecdote from Pastor you know President Harrison, but what was it like to be mistaken for the for the synoptic Lyle Lovett?

Ben (00:35)
Ha ha

it was really funny. so yeah, I can't remember where he told that story, but I've been a Lyle Lovett fan for a long time, even before I knew he was a Missouri Senate Lutheran. and my wife was a big Lyle Lovett fan, so we've been going to his shows for years. And it was not this past time but the time before that he was in concert in Saint Louis and we got really good seats.

They were in the front row, it was awesome. And I kinda nodded to him, you know, before the show or whatever. And I saw President and Mrs. Harrison were just a few seats down from us. So we went and said hi and everything. And then President Harrison was talking to one of his roadie guys, one of his set guys, sound guys, somebody, and gave him his business card. I'm like, you know, he's gonna work this, you know, it's gonna be great. So Lyle comes out, starts doing his

Opening set, and he is a really great storyteller. And so along the way, he talked about how he was a Missouri Synod Lutheran, very thankful for his Lutheran faith. And he said, I'm really excited that the president of Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, my church is here, Reverend Matthew Harrison. Then he points at me.

Brian (01:54)
Ha ha.

Ben (01:57)
so I just thought it was hilarious. and

And President Harrison didn't think it was so funny at the time. But a lot of people clapped. There were a lot of Missouri Centered people in the crowd, but they couldn't see that we were up front, that it was actually the wrong guy. So I haven't met Lyle

Brian (02:14)
Awesome.

Ben (02:15)
yet, but he thought he met me. But he you know, subsequently he's met President Harrison a few times and been in the International Center. I think he's been to the Fort Wayne campus too, and done all kinds of neat stuff. So it's a pretty cool story. It was very funny. And I got a kick out of it at the time.

So

Brian (02:31)
Nice,

nice. So on a more serious note, you were you were reelected as the regional vice president of the Central Region and also elected as the second vice president of the synod. And then for those who aren't really in the syno synonical sphere, what does what do those roles entail?

Ben (02:46)
Sure. So most people, obviously, that are followers of your podcast have heard of President Matthew Harrison. They know about him. He's been president for sixteen years now. the Synod has set itself up to have assistance to President Harrison in his duties of supervision of doctrine and life of all of the members of the Synod. And of all the various responsibilities he has that the Constitution and bylaws delineate.

To that end, for a long time, the Senate has elected vice presidents to assist him in those efforts. The first vice president of the Senate, Peter Lang,

Is a full-time executive. He serves at the International Center. The bylaws give him some really clear responsibilities, especially regarding the colloquy process of new pastors and teachers into our synod's ministerium and roster of commissioned servants of the church. So Vice President Lang is in charge of all of that as part of his mandated responsibilities. The rest of us, Vice Presidents 2 through 6.

Our responsibilities basically are twofold. Number one, we are representatives of the synod president in our region. So the synod has divided itself up into five specific regions of the country. I am in the central region, so I serve in and with the Indiana district, the central and southern Illinois districts, the Missouri District.

the Kansas District, the Oklahoma district, and the Mid-South District, which Mid-South is Arkansas, Tennessee, a little bit of Kentucky, I think, mixed in there, and maybe even a little bit of North Carolina. So that's my region.

And so the regional vice presidents, we would represent President Harrison at conventions of those districts. We might represent him for other kind of matters that might be attended to in our region, and sometimes, as it may necessitate, might get sent someplace else, because we're not simply officers of that region, we're officers of the entire synod, which gets to our second responsibility. We're members of the presidium of the synod, that is, the president and all the vice presidents together.

The Constitution and bylaws give us some very clear responsibilities, particularly an appointment of certain individuals to boards and committees of the Synod, giving President Harrison counsel and advice.

The bylaws mandate that we do that, and he would seek counsel for us in various decisions that he has to make. But also, we are members of the council of presidents. So the council of presidents is made up of the 35 district presidents and the presidium of the synod. And so the bylaws require the council to meet three times a year. We usually meet four times a year, though. And we conduct the various business that the convention gives to us, and that the constitution and bylaws mandate the council does as a group.

So that's basically what we do. But in actuality, all of us that are the regional vice presidents, we're not full-time. We are parish pastors, except for one of us who's recently retired. So, as you mentioned before in the intro, I'm the full-time senior pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church in Hamill, Illinois.

And I have this kind of side responsibility that the Senate has asked me to fulfill as a regional vice president. So we will, as I said, advise President Harrison. We'll receive assignments from him as he gives them to us. As I mentioned before, the Presidium appoints several people and individuals to various boards. So the Presidium actually appointed me to be a member of the Board of Regents of Concordia University of Nebraska.

So I have that responsibility too. And I think one of the great blessings of being a vice president in this, you know, part-time capacity is I get to go about and in and around the di the districts of my region get to know those people, know the pastors, know the district presidents, of course, and get to know the lay people in my region as I'm out and about for various functions, events, conferences, conventions. And then

Me personally, I kind of see myself as I'm the guy in the council of presidents now, along with the other vice presidents, that can kinda give the on the ground rank and file pastors

voice at the Council of President meetings. Because you know, the district presidents, some of them do still serve in the parish, but they're district presidents. They have a different role. I'm a pastor, so I get to go there from the strictly pastoral perspective. Here's how I'm seeing things in the Synod. Here's where things are going well. Here's where things could improve. Here's the issues that are facing the church and can bring that to bear at our Council of Presidents meetings. So that's basically it in a nutshell, Brian.

Brian (08:03)
Cool. Very nice. So the main reason that we're talking today is that you made recently made a presentation to the Lutheran Church in Korea regarding their status as part of the Lutheran World Federation. So also for those who not really familiar with these international bodies, what what is the Lutheran World Federation and what is our relationship, the LCMS relationship to it?

Ben (08:24)
Yeah, so the Lutheran World Federation, the way it defines itself, is an as a communion of Lutheran bodies throughout the world. So they they see themselves as a communion fellowship, reconciled in their diversity both theologically and practically. Now, maybe we'll spend a little more time digging in what that actually means, but basically, since around 1948-ish, Lutheran bodies across the world began to meet.

to dialogue, to communicate with each other, and then that quickly came into a shift into not so much kind of a general dialogue about you know Lutheran activities around the world, but began to be again this seeing themselves as a real communion fellowship. Now to stop right there, for confessional Lutherans, altar and pulpit fellowship is a gift of the Spirit through the working of the gospel and

And a common confession of the doctrine of the Bible and the Lutheran confessions. And what is mandated for true unity in the church is complete unanimity in the Gospel and all its articles. This is Article 7 of the Augsbession. And so we recognize.

Let's just stick with our synod, first and foremost, that the other congregations of our synod are to be in complete unanimity in doctrine and practice with each other. It's why if I came out to California in your church, I could speak with your pastor, I could say, I'm a member of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, very specifically St. Paul and Hamill. I confess the doctrine of the Evangelic Lutheran Church. I desire to receive the sacrament of the altar if you would allow me to do so today. And he'd say, Well, we rejoice in our fellowship and the gospel, our union.

Unity in the doctrine of the church and of Christ Himself, yes, please come to the sacrament of the altar. So we have that within our own fellowship in the Missouri Synod, but then outside of our national and somewhat international boundary, because we have congregations in Canada, for example, we have partner, daughter, sister churches around the world.

And we'll get into specifically about Korea in a minute.

But we see always that our fellowship is something we recognize on the basis of how God has led us to confess, what we actually believe, and then what we teach. And then because we recognize the unity we have, we rejoice in altar and pulpit fellowship. That is, we can share our altars with each other, receive the body and blood of Christ with each other, our pastors can share pulpits and altars in the unity that God has given to us. That unity is not does not

Come easily. And it never has through the history of our sin and life. But it's something we're always striving to maintain, the unity of the faith and the bond of peace. So outside of our fellowship, there's many Lutheran church bodies that claim the name Lutheran that aren't Lutheran at all.

They don't unconditionally subscribe to the Book of Concord of 1580 as a pure exposition of the Word of God. And of course, they don't confess that the Bible, the 66 books, prophetic and apostolic of the Old and New Testaments, are the inspired and errant Word of God. So if you don't have that confession, if you don't have the starting point of that principle of the Scriptures as being the Word of God, you will not get.

The material of the scriptures correct either. That is, what is the chief article of the Christian faith? It is the doctrine of justification by God's grace, for Christ's sake through faith alone. And that precious jewel of the doctrine of justification is how the church is known, how it's found, the gospel taught in its truth and purity.

And if the doctrine of justification goes away, well, the church goes away. It is the doctrine upon which the church stands or falls. So we have the scriptures which reveal to us the person and work of Christ. His work was for our justification. That gospel of the justification of the sinner is proclaimed in our churches. And all the articles of doctrine we confess are.

Will all go back to the doctrine of Scripture because they are the fountain from which they all come. They will be joined together to the doctrine of justification by way of the person of Christ, what He's done for us, who He is, and by way of law or gospel. The three creeds, the ecumenical creeds, they also are these guideposts for us. This is Orthodox Christianity. And so we are always seeking.

Those Christians who also confess the same truth as we do. Now, getting back to the Lutheran World Federation now. That's kind of that's our meat and potatoes there, Brian, right? So, Lutheran World Federation, been around since the 1940s, has not been driven in its actions by the confession of an inerrant and inspired scripture.

And you can see throughout the history of the organization, as it has gained new member churches, national churches throughout the world, it has been at its heart an ecumenical organization, especially in the nineteen sixties post the Second Vatican Council, for Christian unity in diversity. So the doctrine.

We're not talking about the diversity of peoples, we're talking about the diversity of doctrine. Right? Yes. exactly.

Brian (14:37)
I was gonna say, what does that mean? Like what

Ben (14:41)
So the unity that they would seek is a unity that recognizes diversity of doctrine as not being hindrances to the greater proclamation and work of the church. That greater proclamation of the work of the church.

is not necessarily the work of preaching the gospel, because the gospel gets redefined.

Towards a social gospel. One that's more concerned about environmentalism, the rainbow agenda, and whatever other ideology the world is throwing at the people of God. And none of these notions of Lutheran World Federation that I'm trying to say here are just, you know, Vice President Ball making this stuff up.

You can go to the Lutheran World Federation website, you can see all this stuff for yourself, and it's all quite clear as day. But as it normally is with false doctrine, they'll take a term, which we'll say is a very good theological term, but it's completely redefined as to what it means. And this, as its most gross case, took place in 1999 with the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification.

Between the Lutheran World Federation and the Church at Rome, where the words justification, grace, and faith were used, but they were not used in the way that the Scriptures, or certainly the Book of Concord, uses those terms. And so the Lutheran World Federation capitulated completely to the doctrine of Rome.

and gave up the pure doctrine of justification by which the church stands or falls.

That I think for many of our partner churches that had been members was a real tipping point at which the Missouri Synod has stressed over the years, this really there's there's no coming back from this. And once you lose the gospel, you have to have another kind of gospel. And this again becomes the gospel of feminism, of deviant sexual practices.

of confusion over sex, male and female, on and on we go.

So during the Missouri Synod Great Challenges of the 1950s, 60s, and 1970s, if you go back to look at convention workbooks, you'll see there's continuing overtures for the LCMS to join the Lutheran World Federation, which are always kind of knocked down and it never happened. I don't believe any of them actually ever came to the f convention floor. But there was always a move for us to join in this

grand kind of great big worldwide Lutheran church endeavor. And that's how the W Lutheran World Federation really does see itself as one great big church all in fellowship with each other. So if you're a member of the Lutheran World Federation, they don't see any barrier to their people taking communion at our churches that we're in felt that that might be in fellowship with them, or vice versa. So they would have a great difficulty understanding why a

transgendered pastor of some kind wouldn't be able to preach at another Lutheran World Federation church. As a very crass example.

But a real one.

So this leads, all of that by background, leads to what the LCMS did in its convention in 2019. Now, over the years, as all of your listeners know, the Missouri Synod has been very concerned about proclaiming the gospel to all nations. And since the 19th century, we've had overseas mission

work.

That has gone on and still continues faithfully to this day in all the regions of the world where we have missionaries on the ground and we are participating in the preaching of the gospel towards faithful pulpits and altars and Lutheran congregations being formed around the world. That's what we're doing. We want more people to be believing in Jesus, confessing his name, being baptized, receiving everlasting life, and having the comfort of their conscience by that chief article of justification.

So we've been sending missionaries for a long time.

prior to World War two, one of the greats places of our missionary endeavor, particularly in Asia, was in China.

After the Chinese Revolution, World War II happens, those missionaries, especially during World War II, as China is invaded by Imperial Japan, those missionaries all get pulled out of China. Many of them go to Australia, some come back home. but

After World War II, the synod began to restart those mission endeavors in Asia, in Japan, in Taiwan, Hong Kong.

And Korea, but not until after the Korean conflict, where we're first were able to get into Korea with missionaries. But at first start with our chaplains. So Korea in the 19th and 20th century had had many missionaries come and begin to preach and teach the gospel there. Most of them were Methodists and Presbyterians. And so even today.

The majority of Christians in South Korea are either Presbyterian or Methodist.

So we didn't have any missionary activity in Korea before the Korean War, but during the Korean War we did, because many of our young men were drafted and served in the army, the Marines, the Navy, and the Air Force, and were stationed there and fought in the Korean conflict. And of course, with our military personnel came our chaplains.

So our chaplains were faithfully serving our servicemen in Korea. And as the Korean conflict in 1953 wound down, they realized that and as the American presence was going to stay in South Korea and still is there today, that we needed to have places for our servicemen to hear the word of God and to also just kind of do recreation rather than go into the bad places you could probably find if you're a

19-year-old guy looking to get in some trouble. So, our people, our pastors and lay people here in the states, wanted to serve our men in uniform. And so we were able to have very close, almost two blocks away, from the main army encampment in Seoul, the synod bought some property. And it was from that property, which is in pretty much downtown Seoul.

That our mission endeavors started. They started with chaplains, and then soon after we were sending missionaries so that by 1958, just five years after the Korean conflict ended, the Lutheran Church in Korea was founded as a self-standing operating synod on its own, which is really kind of miraculous if you think about it. The missionaries did hard and faithful work.

Dr. Wanyang Ji, who was a young man at the time, eventually would become a professor at the St. Louis Seminary. he's kind of the Korean Luther. He's kind of like the founder of the Lutheran Church in Korea. he would study at the St. Louis seminary, he'd come back to Korea, then eventually come back to St. Louis to be a professor. But that work of Dr. Ji.

of our first missionaries in the ground, first our chaplains that were serving there, bore wonderful and great fruit as the gospel was being proclaimed in a war torn country.

Well, the years pass and in nineteen seventy two

And also in the late 1960s and 70s, many of our partner and daughter churches, where we had been engaging in mission activities,

began to be influenced by the negative biblical scholarship that was happening in the Missouri Cynic.

And it's just a fact. It's a sad fact, but it's a fact. It happened.

And in the early 1970s, late 60s and 70s, many of these daughter churches that the synod had helped to found through its missionary activity began to join the Lutheran World Federation. And this is just at the time when women's ordination is coming into reality in many of the churches of the Augsbon Confession around the world.

Starting in Sweden, coming to America, and eventually being almost everywhere. Our partner churches

They were able to hold that off, even though they had become members of the World Federation for some time.

But not all of them did.

And the most sad example is the Lutheran Church in Japan, which we had to sever fellowship with because we realized that we were not confessing the doctrine of the scriptures as they did anymore. So the mission endeavors that had happened in Japan following the Second World War, the preaching of the gospel there, it had turned. And you can see how you can lose the truth if you lose the doctrine of the scriptures.

So Lutheran Church in Japan had been a member of the World Lutheran Federation. It was under that influence. It been under the influence of liberal theological scholarship and eventually lost the doctrine of the Scripture. And then we had to, at our last convention three years ago, sadly say, We are not in fellowship anymore. Well, but in 2019.

The Synod said we need to actively engage our brothers and sisters around the world theologically about their membership in the Lutheran World Federation. And we and the and the the Synod was exhorting our brothers and sisters around the world to leave. Consider the ramifications of fellowship with such false and

Horrible doctrines and ideologies that are contrary to the word of God.

And separate yourselves from them, and rejoice in the fellowship that we share all the morning.

So this has started happening. So we heard as our President Harrison, as the CTCR and the Church Relations Office in our Synod are engaging our partner churches. they have that responsibility. So President Harrison is the chief ecumenical officer of the Synod. He's the one who is charged by our synod's congregations to have discussions with.

Our partner churches and sister churches and daughter churches around the world about these doctrinal matters. Well, he enlists assistance with that job. The CTCR, the the Synod's Commission on Theology and Church Relations, I know you had a podcast with Dr. Nolan all about them several months ago. But it's what Commission on Theology and Church Relations. So one of their tasks is that same thing, the endeavoring towards the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace and the and the doctrine of the scriptures. That's one of their tasks.

And then President Harrison also has a few staff members that they also engaged in this work. So they've been hard at work at this specifically since 2019, as the Synod gave that that commission to have open and frank discussion about Lutheran World Federation membership with our fellow churches, our partner churches. So that, for example, the Lutheran Church in Kenya has now severed its Lutheran World Federation membership.

Lutheran Church in the Philippines actually finalized that decision just day before yesterday, I think. And we're talking here at the end of October. So I think that for our partner churches that have been Lutheran World Federation members, they're recognizing: yes, these are serious doctrinal matters. And we need to address them and we need to actually act on them. So

This gets to now back to Korea and my adventure there. President Harrison had been invited to come and address the convention of the Lutheran Church in Korea, which took place the very first week of October. He was already going to address some of our Eastern European bishops with another meeting they had, so I got told, hey, Ball, you're going to Korea. That's what vice presidents do, right?

Brian (29:15)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (29:16)
You get sent somewhere. So the Lutheran Church in Korea at their convention, they meet annually. they have about sixty con well sixty-four or five congregations in the Republic of Korea. They've got about you know the same number of pastors, and they have a a college, Luther College is in Seoul, and which is rather substantial university.

And they also have Luther Seminary, which is in Seoul too. And the leadership of Luther Seminary in Seoul is outstanding, faithfully confessional. The professors there have received their higher education from St. Louis. many of the the the president of the synod, President Juan, has been to Fort Wayne. and so the leadership of

Our partner church in Korea are very confessional men, very faithful men, and good friends actually, that I've been able to really enjoy their company as I've gotten to know them over the last couple years. Dear, dear faithful pastors. And they invited me then, as President Harrison couldn't go, to come to their convention because they had before them as their one main item of business.

was to Lutheran World Federation stay or go.

And so it was going to be before them. They were going to debate whether or not they would leave. And

Maybe I don't know if you you can put show notes in there, but some of the documents that I sent you, maybe you could put on there to see how the the Missouri Senate has talked through its church relations office and President Harrison to our partner churches about Lutheran World Federation and the necessity of proper c properly confessing the doctrine of the church. So I got to go and to give about an hour and fifteen minute presentation, ex encouraging and exhorting them

To lead the Lutheran Lutheran World Federation. And what I basically did was a pretty simple presentation, to be honest. I just simply said here's what the scriptures are.

'Cause our doctrine always has got to start with the Bible.

And we confess the doctrine of the scriptures that it is inerrant, it's infallible, it's inspired by the Holy Spirit, it's profitable for reproof, for teaching, correcting in righteousness, but especially for doctrine. That's what St. Paul says. Our teaching. And so I got to talk about that for quite a long time. And I also told them: nothing I'm going to tell you here is.

information that any member of their congregation couldn't also say.

Sometimes, Brian, I think people need to realize that our doctrine is very, very clear. You don't need to be some high-falutin, educated theologian to know what the Bible says. As a matter of fact, we're simply trying to train parents, children, old, young, everybody basically what the Bible says.

And then of course our guide for teaching them that is the small catechism.

And then how is that life lived in our prayers and pray and thanksgiving and praises? Well, in our hymnal.

That's where you find how Lutheran doctrine is then expressed in the faith of God's people, and it teaches you then to confess it in song and word, how you're gonna live your life as a witness to others. And of course, most importantly, how God comes to you in his means of grace. So I just basically said that's that's it, right? That's Lutheranism. And then was able to show: here's what the book of Concord says about the scriptures, the pure fountain of Israel.

Upon which all matters are to be judged, and so forth. But then I narrowed in on three maybe very pertinent topics for the group, the convention. One was the doctrine of male and female, which leads to the human sexuality, that Lutheran World Federation, they don't believe and confess in an errant Bible. Well, that you can have lady pastors.

If you don't have an infallible and errant Bible that teaches you how to live and how you're to think, well, you can have all kinds of deviant sexual practices that will only lead people away from Christ and without faith in Christ, there is no hope.

But I try to say, well, we do have hope because we have the Word of God that leads to repentance and faith and a new life. But the Lutheran World Federation does not accept that.

And then finally got right down to the doctrine of justification with the 1999 statement on the joint declaration of doctrine of justification with the Roman Church, and how this is, again, a complete capitulation to the Church of Rome about the doctrine upon which the church stands or falls. And so I said, well, because of these things, and there's many more.

Here's why you should join with us once again and confess the truth of the gospel. and I commended him to God, and that was it. which was it really kind of it was but it was so enjoyable. As I said, any Christian can say these things.

Any Christian who knows his scripture and knows Lutheran doctrine can say this. I just, because of my responsibility as a synod vice president, got tasked with doing it at that place. And I was very honored to do so and was warmly welcomed pretty much.

Brian (35:38)
Okay.

Ben (35:39)
Because what happened next was really fascinating.

you've been to conventions before, Brian, and sometimes

Brian (35:51)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (35:51)
you know how when people go to microphones supposedly to debate an issue, or maybe they even ask questions. That's maybe it's better for that. Because this is the Q and A. During a Q and A session. If you go to a Q and A if a if you know your President Harrison's there and might have a Q and A with him at a district convention or something.

People might not necessarily ask questions, they might instead give speeches. And that's

Brian (36:20)
Right. Right.

Ben (36:21)
what happened. So I gave my presentation and immediately Pastor Choule was sitting next to me and he was my translator. I've known him for several years, he's really, really funny guy. And all of a sudden, at the microphones, they're not even looking at me, they're looking at each other, the pastors.

as they're d they already started debating. And it wasn't debate time yet. But I asked Pastor Chew, like, what's going on here? He said, they're just arguing.

Which was really funny. 'Cause I'm like, Well that happens in the Missouri Synod too. Supposed to be Q and A and we're just gonna argue with the other guys.

But what they argued about, and I I've come to learn, many of their pastors have been educated not at St. Louis or Fort Wayne, but some have been educated for advanced degrees in Europe.

under liberal theologians. And the one question that one question I was asked it wasn't even asked of me, it was asked of President Juan, why isn't there a Lutheran World Federation representative here to give the other side of the of the coin, basically?

So they're a divided church.

And the good thing about it is they they recognize that division and they're working at it to say we have got to address it cannot s it cannot remain this way. It just can't.

So a after a long debate, they then eventually decided to study it one more year. Kind of punt. They meet in convention every year. And so they said, well, we're just gonna we'll study this one more time and come back again. But again, that's always the liberal move, isn't it, Brian? Like,

Brian (38:19)
Yeah.

Ben (38:19)
let's just keep on studying until we get the conclusion we want.

Brian (38:24)
That that reminds me of the Lutheran Church of Australia, right? They they just kept going coming back and eventually it w it it wears the other side down or something happens where it just it they just yeah, they will keep studying until they get the outcome they desire, seemingly.

Ben (38:38)
That's right.

Now I'm praying that doesn't happen in Korea. I think they've got many very faithful pastors, faithful laymen, a faithful leadership of the seminary and the synod, that that's not gonna happen. But I think, you know, patience is good. We wanna be we want to be patient with our brothers. But sometimes patience has to be tempered by faithfulness, and faithfulness by patience, I suppose too. I don't know. But you there has to be a decision, has to happen.

It it happens, you know, in our families. Dad's got to say, I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about this. Well, we got it. Here's what we're doing.

And in the church that has to happen too. There has to be a point where we have to confess rightly. And if people don't want to, well we have to say, Well, you don't want to. And so our fellowship is severed, as we saw with you know, as I get Lutheran Church of Japan just a couple of years ago. And other examples

Brian (39:38)
So

Ben (39:39)
over the Synod's life.

Brian (39:40)
what what s does the does the El the Lutheran World Federation do they have any sticks or carrots that like keep also keep the the you know the the group our sister congregation in you know in fellowship

or in that organization? Not career. Okay.

Ben (39:51)
Not curr not Korea. Now for for other partner

churches, they might receive financial and other tangible I don't know, gifts is the right word, but benefits probably from Lutheran World Federation f membership. It's not the case in Korea. As a matter of fact, Korea sends the beneficences their way.

And so our our our partner churches, our congregations in Korea, I was so impressed with with them and and the giving and the charitable nature of their people and and this faithful stewardship of the gifts that God has given to them. so no, they're our partner church in Korea is not receiving anything coming down from Lutheran World Federation.

But they're under such immense pressure because basically they're saying you don't want to be divisive. And here's the thing. If you're living in a country where Christians are a minority,

You're gonna be more apt to being kind toward other Christians that you might run into. Now that makes perfect sense, right? I mean, if if I were dropped somewhere and I thought I was the only Christian in the place, and I found some other guy, and he says, Hey, I'm Joe. I'm a Christian. I'm a Baptist. I'd be like, praise the Lord, there's another Christian here.

I couldn't commune with him, but I'd be very thankful that I found someone who also confesses Jesus as Lord.

So I think that's a dynamic. And here's the other dynamic that is very, very powerful in Korea.

Unlike many of our partner churches, the Lutheran Church in Korea has never had its own Lutheran hymn.

So after the Korean War concluded, there was a general Protestant hymnal published in Korean with orders of service and hymns, and it was for use by Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, you name it. Now, I I'm I'm quite sure that whatever Anglican presence there was,

In Korea probably translated the book of common prayer into Korean. I don't know. But this hymnal is the general Protestant hymnal which all Protestants, for the most part, as far as I can tell, use. It was revamped again and updated maybe twenty years ago.

But that's the hymnal our brothers and sisters in Christ use in South Korea.

And that's a problem.

Because if you are, our faith, Brian, it's given to us by God, and then we confess it back to Him, to our neighbors, to the world. We do that in our preaching, in our teaching, in giving an answer for the hope that's within us and everything we do, but especially when we come together at the divine service.

To pray and to receive the gifts of God through the Word and Sacrament.

And we know very well that Lutherans are formed in their Lutheranism by the doctrine of the small catechism and then how we sing that faith and pray that faith on Sunday morning and throughout the week. Our Lutheran hymnity is non-negotiable because it confesses the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church.

But if you're not singing Lutheran hymns and you don't have a Lutheran hymnal, your piety, it's gonna be very challenging to be formed to be a confessional Lutheran. Now that's true in Korea. Guess where it's also true? Right here in America.

So if we want Lutherans, which we do, because God wants Lutherans because we're Christians, and we are the Catholic Church of the Augsburg Confession unaltered, that's our claim.

We have to live that and pray that and receive that in what we sing and pray and how we receive the gifts of God. And maybe that's the time for another podcast to talk about how we do that.

Brian (44:57)
Well one one is that there was a resolution to to use the hymnal at at our Concordias. Just use the hymnals at the Concordias. And y and that

Ben (45:04)
Exactly. Exactly.

Brian (45:05)
that that's yeah, yes. That that was one other

Ben (45:07)
Because it's foundational

toward a Lutheran piety. Here's how Lutherans pray. Here's how we sing. Here's how we live the faith that we receive.

So one of the big things that the Lutheran Church in Korea asks us to do as the Missouri Synod because of the resources we have is help us have a Lutheran hymnal. That was the big thing they wanted me to bring back to the states is help us get a Lutheran hymnal

And I had a I had a meeting with President Harrison, kind of recapped this stuff the other day, and that's the main thing I told them. Like they want help to get out of that general Protestant mess and be Lutherans in their doctrine and in their practice. And that is how we can help them. we have one missionary in Korea. they're they're they're a self-standing church, our one missionary in Korea.

Pastor Carl Hansen is a faithful pastor, and he serves International Lutheran Church in Seoul. I got to go to church there on Sunday of a month ago. It was great. It was so I was so blessed myself to sit in the pew and hear God's people singing out of the hymnal, because they have Lutheran service book there.

But it's international Lutheran Church because there's confessional Lutherans from all around the world that are working in different governmental agencies from whatever country they're from. There's lots of expat Americans that work there, work either for our armed services, work for our State Department or Department of War. They're there going to church. I I met a guy that I went to the same high school with. I'm a little bit older than him. I'm like a small world, right? but then also a lot of a lot of Korean people go to the church too.

Because it's their neighborhood church and the gospel has flourished, and they're they're able to speak English because the services aren't English, but they're going to church there. But it was great. I can go thousands of miles away to Seoul, Korea, and I can crack the same book and pray the same way as the people do here in the middle of the Illinois Prairie, surrounded by soybeans and cornfields. That's

Brian (47:31)
Amazing.

Ben (47:31)
a great joy.

We should actually try to do that here across the Missouri Synod.

Because it's a the way we pray is an extension of the unity and the faith that we have. So I'm praying that at least my time over there can help be kind of a catalyst talking to leadership in our sin, and let's help our partners as they're trying to get out of that general Protestant mess and be faithful confessional Lutherans, help them so they can sing and pray the faith.

that they have and they want. And it was so great to hear it.

From President June, President June Kim of their seminary, and President Juan of their Synod. This is this is how we need the Missouri Synod to help us. And they were so very grateful because they realized, you know, the pure gospel, God's word, Luther's pure doctrine came because the Missouri Synod well actually I I I I mentioned it as a part of my my speech because the president of the

Lutheran Church of the Philippines was there too, that I mentioned before. I've just left left Lutheran World Federation. And I said, think about how God uses the wickedness of this world to bring about such good. Because how did the missionaries of the Missouri Synod get to the Philippines? After the conflict of the Second World War, chaplains were there, and then missionaries came. The same thing in Korea. After their conflict, chaplains came, missionaries came. So out of the conflict.

Of violence and hatred and death. Well, God uses that to bring the pure gospel to those places. And I just got a sense of their great gratitude toward our synod for the love that's been shared over since 1958 when they became a you know their self-standing church, the missionaries that we've sent, the support and prayers that our people have given to them, and they want to be Lutheran.

Now they've got real problems, which they are working on on the basis of the Word of God. And somehow the you know, I pray that the proper confession is going to prevail, and I think it will. His minds can be changed by the Holy Spirit, by the word of God.

And people can be convinced even by sound reason. Like for example, one of the things I did mention is

The total fertility rate for Korean women is I think 0.83, so that over the course of childbearing years, a Korean woman will have less than one child.

Well that means it's a dying culture.

They're unable to re even replace themselves and the families they have. And I said, Well, if that's your culture, the Christian culture of life and of family needs to be proclaimed all the more, which the Lutheran World Federation is fighting against you.

They're not for faithful families with husband, wife, mom, dad, children. They're fighting against that with their rainbow ideology. But I said, you, you believe and confess that. You believe that God has ordained families, that He's ordained marriage as the union of one man and one woman, which produces children. And you should pray for children and show by your own example the fruitfulness that God wants.

And I said, that is gonna set you apart from everybody in this country. That you can proclaim God's word about family, marriage, his gift of children. And so I think that's just kind of even reason can say, Yeah, we can distinguish ourselves from everybody else just by saying, Hey, we should be having children. God loves children. And he wants us to raise children as Christians.

Brian (51:47)
So dep I guess depending on how things go, we pray that they they, you know, they r reneg or withdraw from the LWF. But either way, like how do how what would be the effects, you know, of for us in that region? You said we have a missionary and then also, you know, they have a seminary and and and things like what what kind of after effects would happen either which way, I guess?

Ben (52:10)
Yeah, I I I think positively, should they re move remove themselves from the Lutheran World Federation? I think obviously the greatest thing, it gives glory to God and extols Christ and all his doctrine. And that's the most important thing to do, right? when we can I mean that's doxology. You know, we're giving the right praise to God. So when we can this is important for us. When we're confessing the right doctrine, we are glorifying God.

It actually is pleasing to him for us to believe, teach, and confess his word. And it glorifies his name. I mean, we're extolling the person and work of Christ when we do that. So that's the most important thing. And then secondarily, for the evangelical witness in Korea, they're able to say unequivocally, this is the word of God. They're not

brought down by this baggage of being connected to an organization doesn't confess the truth of God's word. They can say, here is our teaching, and here are all the other brothers and sisters around the world that confess with us that same truth.

I think those are the most important things actually.

I couldn't tell you what would happen if they didn't leave. I don't even want to speculate. Cause I don't think th I think they're gonna do the right thing. But I'll just leave it at that.

Brian (53:45)
Okay. Okay. So what

yes, that's what we pray. So what what what could you know, what have you what have the Korean Lutherans taught you that the LCMS and our congregations could learn from them?

Ben (53:58)
Yeah, I think as I mentioned before, I think with their leadership and and many of the pastors that I've met over the course of the last few years, their desire to be Lutheran in their doctrine and practice, they want they want to use the divine service that we've received because what does it do in the ceremonies that it has? Well, first and foremost, they teach us of what we need to know about Christ.

And they want people to know of Christ.

And that was very clear to me.

And you know when when you're when you're when you're trying to get yours I mean think about how hard it is to repent for us individually. But when you're trying to turn a whole church body

towards the good it's difficult, but they're doing it and they're trying. They're they're not the leadership of the church is not

being silent about the real matters that they're facing. That was really helpful to me to think about. To be courageous, to be steadfast, to call a thing what it is, and to actually then say, well we're we'll talk about it. I mean maybe we'll stretch it out for a year one more time. But we're gonna come to a conclusion here. That takes fortitude and courage and reliance on God's word. We can always learn from those examples.

other thing was again, just for me personally, was just the hospitality and openness to me personally. It was so nice to meet these dear Christian people there. And and I realize our Missouri Senate people, we're just like that too here in America.

It's good to be nice. It's good to be hospitable. It's good to be loving and welcoming to people. And to open your home to a stranger that you kn might be a stranger, but the stranger that they this one, they knew that we believed the same things. It was Christian hospitality. That was really nice.

Brian (56:20)
Very good, very good. So my final question, why should a member in the pew of an L C S congregation care about any of this?

Ben (56:27)
Yeah. Well, a Christian is always concerned about the doctrine of the church.

It's kind of like if you look if you read the epistles of Saint Paul and you read the book of Acts, the local congregations were told to have concern for the other places that may have been far, far away from them. But they were fellow believers in those far away places. So even the scriptures give us the example of you know the the

Catholic nature of the church. So we are joined together with Christians of all times and all places. When our churches gather on Sunday morning, we are that locality. But we are a part of the body of Christ that is beyond time and place, but is then found where God's word is preached in its truth and purity from that pulpit and altar as we receive those gifts. So we are always to be concerned.

About Christians in other places, because there are brothers and sisters. That's important. But also, we have to be concerned about the proper Lutheran confession of our partners. If we say that we are in doctrinal fellowship, that we recognize that we believe and teach and confess the same things, well, we better believe, teach, and confess the same things. Or else it's a false confession. Now that's true with partner churches.

Around the world, it's also true for our congregations here in the Synod. We need to be believing, teaching, confessing the same thing. 'Cause we say we do. Let's not just make but make it a paper declaration, let's do it in life. And so that's why we all gotta be concerned about such things.

Brian (58:21)
I really do love that they want a hymnal. That that is just a a wonderful thing. All right.

Ben (58:23)
Yeah. That's great. It's awesome. It's awesome.

Brian (58:28)
So Pastor Ball, is there anything else you wanna, you know, say in closing as we wrap this up?

Ben (58:32)
Well, I thanks for the opportunity, Brian. I mean, I didn't give you a chance to ask a lot of questions. I just kept on rolling.

Brian (58:39)
I I

wanted to this is what I like to do. I like to just learn about what, you know, and this is what I think people want to hear about this and people it it's very edifying for the you know, for the LCMS as a whole to understand what's going on around us.

Ben (58:51)
I think it's thanks for saying that, Brian. I think it is important because, you know, if like my members here in Hamill, they knew that I went to Korea, right? But what is their s what is the Missouri Synod doing in other parts of the world? it's important for you to know, like that's happening. Like I didn't I didn't go on my own dime, right? Your offerings sent me over there to say these things to our brothers and sisters there.

It's part of your work. It's part of actually our work together as the congregations and people of the Missouri Synod. And so you elect representatives to do these kinds of things that you couldn't do. And you say, all right, you're going to be our representative, Pastor Ball, to go do this over there. And so I did it. And it was a real honor to do it. And so the people in the pews need to know that their synod is active for them, for the sake of their confession.

And is putting to good use the gifts that they give in thankfulness to God for gospel proclamation and true, proper and right teaching of the gospel and all its articles. So it's important they know that. Like this is happening.

Brian (1:00:00)
That's wonderful, Pastor Pastor Ball. Thank you so much for being here and and giving telling me talking about this important matter of the church.

Ben (1:00:07)
Thanks, Brian. Thanks a lot.